Posts by Rod P

39

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF APOSTATES ?????????+

by vitty in

jw
friends

when you were still in the org, did you ever wonder what the apostates were saying?

the society would just say lies and half truths.i always assumed it was about the trinity, and other religious stuff.

i thought they were exjws who had become born agains !.

Rod P

I have an idea. It's a good one, because it follows the same logic and pattern as the JW template (paradigm).

Let's all start a new religion. Everyone on JWD Forum who has been here for at least a month are considered members (i.e. a minimum period of indoctrination before joining). There is a requirement to be "Faithful" but it is not necessary to be "Discreet".

Now, anyone who leaves JWD Forum will be considered "Apostate", because after all, that means you have fallen away from da Troof. It doesn't matter that one guy believes one thing, while another guy believes something different. As a loyal member you have to believe everything without question, even if there appear to be contradictions in the belief system.

All Apostates do not deserve our fellowship or understanding, so we must "Shun" them all. No excuses; no exceptions! And anyone who goes back to the JW Religion is definitely an "Apostate" of the worst kind, so those ones we must especially "Shun". Of course, tt must be da Debil keeping them in bondage, blinding them to da Troof of JWD.

We must be sure to warn the rest of JWD members to beware of those Apostates, for they are in the grips of Satan, and will deceive even the very Elect of us if we are not cautious and ever vigilant.

If you look real carefully at a JWD Apostate, you will notice he/she has a certain look. They have that kind of "devilish stare" in their eyes, and they act real weird- Anyway, they are just not normal, and you can tell right away.........We must avoid them like the plague, at all costs. And, of course, talking with them or associating with them is strictly forbidden. They are evil and rotten to the core, and God will destroy them in the end. Boy, then they'll be sorry! But of course, by then it will be too late.

Now, if any of these Apostates see the error of their ways, we will, of course, welcome them back to JWD. However, they must go thru a period of contrition, and demonstrate that they are sincere by remaining loyal to JWD for a minimum period of six months, but which can easily be much longer.

They must study all of the posts on JWD, but they must never comment on any of them until they have been reinstated. The forum Administrator will announce to everyone when that person has been reinstated. But still, we must all watch that person in case he falls away again. You can never fully trust a reformed Apostate.

I think Simon should be the head of this New Religion, because everyone knows how to play "Simon says". All those in favour, say "Aye!"............And the JWD Forum erupts in unanimous approval!.......That settles it then, Simon is our fearless leader, and now God is on our side, and he will bless us abundantly.

Hmmmmm. Now that we are this New Religion, blessed and inspired by the God of the Whole Universe, we need to get organized. Just one problem. All of our teachings and interpretations are not exactly consistent. Since dis ting contradicts dat ting, then obviously they can't both be right. That means that some of dese tings are "lies" while some of it is da Troof. Well, how are we going to handle that?

I know, let's tell everyone that the parts that turn out to be lies are called "Old Light", but the parts that are true, at least for the time being, we'll call that "New Light" from our One True God, who has revealed this "New Troof" thru our Faithful and Indiscreet Slave Class (FICS). And, of course, as new stuff comes on line, we can just adopt this "New Stuff" by calling it "New Light", and then discard the previous "New Light" into the ever-expanding bin of "Old Light". But that's progress, and God doesn't want to tell us da whole Troof just yet, cuz we couldn't handle it all. We are just "spiritual babes" who can only drink "spiritual milk", and we can't eat "spiritual meat" in due season until we grow up some more spiritually. Ah the wisdom from God!!!

Oh, I forgot to mention, those who are members of JWD Forum at the present time get to be of the "Faithful and Indiscreet Slave Class" (FICS). New ones can be added up to the magical number of 144,000, but then that exclusive Club will be considered "filled". Hmmmm... I wonder if JWD Forum has 144,000 members yet. Oh well, if not, we'll just wait around until we get that many, and then we'll announce that membership is now filled (unless one of us falls away by becoming one of those Apostates). (Anyone want to voluteer to take care of the statistics on this?) Anyway, we all get to go to heaven when we die.

After that, anyone who joins has to be considered one of the "Great Crowd of Other Bleeps" (GCOB), and they are stuck on Planet Earth when they die. Poor sods! Oh well, we of the FISC will take care of the GCOB in the New World when that one comes along. We'll just organize them into labour camps while they spend the next 1000 years restoring the planet and burying all those rotten corpses left over from the destruction of this Wicked Old System of Things.

Now in our Religion, the good news is, we don't have to go out in Field Service. But we do have to report our Time. Every month we have to report to Simon how many hours we spent on JWD, and he is going to keep track on each one of us. He has some very powerful computers, and they remember everything about us in a file on each one of us. Oh, and don't even think about "fudging" on your time, because Simon can audit the time logs on the Internet and can tell if you were being truthful or not.

What we have to do is spend as much time as possible on this JWD Forum. That is a sign of our "Spiritual Maturity". The more hours you spend here, the greater will be your reward in the next life.

We don't have to worry about preaching our Gospel to the whole world because there is not enough time left before the end is going to come, which is in 2010. That's less than 5 years from now, so we simply can't reach everyone in time. However, maybe if someone can think up a good pyramid scheme, I tell 2 people, they each tell 2 more = 4, and they tell 2 more = 16....... and in 5 years we may be able to reach everyone in time. Only problem is, those damn Apostates are going to show up on the Internet and give us a lot of "bad press", which is nothing but a bunch of damn lies that will slow down our progress.

Now, about those damn Apostates. Unfortunately, they have a lot of insider information about JWD Forum. They know exactly which is da Troof, and which are the lies that we promulgate. Then they have the audacity to publish all this on the Internet for the whole world to see! Daayamm! What a nuisance. Now we gotta deal with this problem.

I know, we'll just brand these guys with the word "Apostate". That word conjures up an image of wicked and evil and rebellious person, who is under the power of Satan da Debil, and who hates God who we love. Yep, that's the perfect label. Just say the word, and everyone on JWD will recognize these guys and avoid them like the plague. Who cares if they are telling the truth about us to the rest of the world. They are just Apostates because they have fallen away from da Troof, and that's all there is to it. We know this because the FISC has told us about these Apostates, and Simon has told us that God told him this too, so we gotta beware and ignore and shun these scumbag Apostates. It's for our own good, and our eternal salvation that we must do this.

Isn't it wonderful how Simon and the FISC are watching out for our best spiritual interests and warning us of the dangers to our spirituality and our relationship with God, and to be especially careful to avoid damn Apostates at all costs.

Amen, brothers and sisters!

Rod P.

13

2 dates & the coversations revolved around sex

by LouBelle in

jw
friends

so i go out with this one guy.

i've known him for a while & needed a partner for a wedding and asked him.

i then asked him to go with me to an anniversary party.

Rod P

LouBelle,

I think the mistake a lot of guys make is they have gotten things out of order. Some do it deliberately by "cutting to the chase", which they use as a deliberate strategy to find out immediately where "the girl" is coming from. However, many other guys simply don't know or realize what they are doing in the process. They have not been taught or educated about etiquette and protocol and social graces, and how to be a gentleman, etc. They simply have no couth, and this is born of ignorance! Then, when they get turned down and socially embarrassed, they stand there bewildered, wondering what they did wrong.

Guys who talk about "sex, sex, sex" on a first date or encounter often get that from some back room "talk with the boys". Certain ones begin telling their tales of who and how many girls they have exploited or conquered and gotten away with it- How you gotta take control of the situation, like the caveman- Me Tarzan, you Jane! Grunt! Grunt! They think that by being macho and chauvinistic and dominant (assertive??), the girls will really be attracted to this, and so they use that as their modus operandi. The truth is, very few women find that attractive; on the contrary, it is a complete turn-off.

When it comes to dating, or "hooking up" or "connecting", there are some definite steps that must be followed, if you do not want the potential for a relationship (i.e. down the road), or even just a friendship, to end in failure or termination.

First there are the introductions, where people meet each other. At that stage, they are "sizing one another up", getting and making first impressions about each other, and finding out what each one wants or is looking for. This does not give anyone a "license" to pursue the other person to the next level. It is about exploration and discovery, and finding out if both of you want to pursue things further, OR NOT.

If it turns out that this is merely a "friendship" such as platonic only, then that boundary should be respected (on both sides). One does not have the right to "invade" the other person's "space", or make presumptions about the other person. This often happens if you have been acquaintances along the way, and then suddenly one of you begins to approach the other one at a "friendship" level, which kind of jumps beyond the mere "acquaintance" stage. For example, you wanted someone to accompany you as a "partner" at a wedding, but that's all you wanted. He may have, rightly or wrongly, taken that as a signal that you were interested in him beyond that level. Then rather than explore that with you to find out where you were coming from, he fast forwards another 10 or 15 steps to the "let's have sex together" stage. Here again, he doesn't ask. He just assumes, and then makes it worse by persisting along this path. Then, quite naturally, you react by pointing out the inappropriateness of his remarks (behaviour?).

If the persons involved in a social exchange (eg. date) discover that they are sufficiently interested enough in each other to want to have a few more "get togethers", then that opens the door to further exploration "by mutual consent". This is when they should try different things, different environments (eg. restaurants, dances, movie theatres, picnics, group dates and social gatherings, meeting family members, going to church together, and such). This affords the couple many and diverse opportunities to see the many sides of the other person, from which they have sufficient information to be able to evaluate and decide if they are still interested. It the answer is still "Yes!" then the relationship, which now becomes courtship, can be pursued further. If the answer is "No!", then perhaps they should both agree to remain friends or acquaintances, and then move on.

If a woman has no interest in a long-term relationship in the first place, then she should be very cautious about approaching a guy in the first place, such as "I just need a partner to go with me to this wedding." The mere act of approaching and asking him out on this occasion is, in fact, sending him a signal that is probably implying to him a certain level of interest in him as a person, and even as a possible relationship.

There are certain types of guys who are dating with "no strings attached" who do it all the time, and think nothing of it. On the other hand, I would say this is not true for the majority of guys, especially the shy ones or the less popular ones with the ladies. These ones take things much more seriously, and so tend to read into things more than is really there. That is why it should be made crystal clear to him at the outset, when you first propose he accompany you, that this is merely a case of accompanying you as a "convenience partner" thing, and nothing should be read into this beyond that. "We are just good old friends, and that is all!! Understand?" And get him to acknowledge that up front. There must be NO ambiguity right from the get-go. If he acknowledges this up front, then you have a basis to remind him of that later if he gets out of line with his remarks or behaviour later, such as at the wedding.

Anyway, it really ticks me off the way so many of the male specimens of the human population don't know how to act with a woman. It's like they have all been programmed with this fast-food, instant news, and right-now self-gratification, that they think they can just fast-track the "male-female interaction" thing the same way. They need a good lesson in dating and etiquette, and should do their homework on how to properly treat a lady. If they did, they would discover they would be a lot happier, and would go a lot farther in their relationships and friendships with the opposite sex. IMHO.

Rod P.

1

credit bureau questions, canada

by orbison11 in

jw
friends

greets all.

i heard that after 7 yrs, anything bad on credit report is removed, even if not filed for bankruptcy,,,.

any ever heard of this?

Rod P

Orbison 11,

Yes, that is true. It's called the "Statute of Limitations".

Creditors have up to seven years to sue a person. If they don't by then, they have no further legal recourse.Also, credit reporting agencies must remove anything reported to them by a Creditor that comprises information on you that is more than seven years old.

Rod P.

35

Matthew 24:14 and Preaching in the First Century

by Leolaia in

the eschatological discourse in matthew 24 (derived from mark 13 and paralleled in luke 21) concerns the destruction of jerusalem and what was to shortly follow it.

mark presents both the jerusalem invasion and the coming of the son of man in judgment as closely connected, which reflects the time when the gospel was likely written (i.e.

shortly before or after ad 70).

Rod P

Leolaia,

Excellent write-up on Matthew 24.

Just a quick comment. I think you would make a great apologist for the Preterists. They teach that the "end" occurred with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem 70 AD, and that none of the prophecies about the "end of the world" have anything to do with some kind of prediction for the 20th or 21st centuries. But then, I'm sure you know all that.

I'm curious what you think of the Preterists and also "Partial Preterism".

Rod P.

41

Did you ever witness someone being escorted out of the KH?

by JH in

jw
friends

did it ever happen in your congregation that a person was asked to leave?.

i remember about 10 years ago, an elder was giving the sunday talk, and a woman that i never saw before was seated in the front.

she was all alone, and right in the middle of the brothers talk, she raised her hand and started asking questions to the brother about what he just said.

Rod P

Years ago, as a young witness (age 21) I was rehearsing my "public talk" material. It was a Saturday night, and I had the keys to the Kingdom Hall. I and my young bride-to-be (age 19) went to the hall, and I got up on the podium and began to deliver my talk with the microphone. My fiance sat in the front row, listening to my delivery.

Suddenly, there was a knock on the front door of the hall. I walked down the aisle and answered the door. Here were two smiling Indians asking to speak to someone. They called me "brother", and told me they were studying with a brother at another town ) I knew the place they referred to.) I told them there was no-one here, and that I was just rehearsing for my talk to be given the next day. They asked if they could come in and just listen.

I escorted them in, to a couple of seats near the front. They sat there quietly, seeming to be listening intently. When my rehearsal was over, they both clapped. I came down from the podium, and my engaged girl-friend and I were preparing to leave. These fellows came over to us and shook our hands, and said what a nice talk that was. It was then that I noticed they had the smell of booze on their breaths, and it looked a bit like they were having a little trouble standing up straight.

Then one of them asked me for money for food. I told them I didn't have any (which I didn't at the time.) Then he told me that if I knew what was good for me, I would give them some money. I asked him "What do you mean?" He said "If you care for that wife of yours, you will give us some money!" I again told him "I don't have any on me. But if you wait a minute, I will phone the Congregation Overseer, I will see if he can come over here and bring some money for them." They said "O.K.", so I went downstairs to where the phone was and called the PO. I explained what was going on, and we were scared and felt threatened.

The PO asked me to describe the two guys, which I did. He told me he thinks he has met them before, and that I should just insist that they leave. Then, if the problem persists, I was to call him back.

All this time I was horrified, wondering what my future bride was going thru upstairs with those two drunken natives, while I was down here talking to the PO. I had asked him to come down or to call the police, but all he could advise was to tell them to leave, and if the problem persists, call him back. What if this turned violent! Kind of late to call him back, don't you think. Oh well, I guess he didn't want to be interrupted or inconvenienced. (Sorry to disturb you brother PO.)

I rushed back upstairs to confront these two guys, and to make sure she was as safe from harm as possible under the circumstances. I had my big ol' field service briefcase with me, so I managed to pick it up. I was ready to use it as a defence weapon if it became necessary.

I told them that the PO would be coming down to see them shortly, but that he told me to tell them that they must wait just outside the front door until he comes, as we had to lock up, and members of the public are not supposed to be in the hall when there is no meeting going on.

They listened to me, and actually went to the front steps of the hall, while I told them to just wait until the Overseer came. They smiled at me, and sat down on the front steps. Then I closed the entrance door and locked it. I kind of felt bad about lieing to them, as there was no Overseer coming. At the same time, I felt a lot safer with them locked out.

We then waited inside the Hall, hoping they would leave. How long it would have to be, was anybody's guess. She was pretty upset, but we both pondered what to do next. What if they got impatient and angry, and then tried to break down the door? Should we call the cops? Well, we were not sure if we should involve the cops, since this was not really "our" Kingdom Hall", but belonged to everybody. And these two guys had not really done anything yet. But we didn't feel safe, and now we felt trapped. I think we sat there another 30 minutes.

Finally, I went back downstairs and phoned the PO once more. I explained what I told them, and now they were waiting for him to arrive on the front steps. (I think he was just finishing up supper with his family at the time.) So he told me he would come down and see what is going on and what to do about it.

About 15 minutes later he showed up. The Indians were still sitting on the front step. (There were a couple of times along the way where they kept banging on the door, but we didn't answer.) We did not see the Overseer arrive, but the door did open, and here was the PO, asking how we were doing. I said we were pretty scared, but we were not harmed. He told us he confronted them, and told them to leave, and they left. He threatened them with police action if they didn't.

In the aftermath, I must say my respect for that PO went down several notches. I said to myself "I hope he enjoyed his nice supper with his family while we were down here panicking." Never again would I consider a rehearsal at a Kingdom Hall again.

Of course, my life as a married JW all changed when I later left that religion and became a Mormon (which I later also left). But that is another story.

Rod P.

94

The Skeptic's Worst Nightmare (S)

by Shining One in

check some of this out and you may see why there are two sides to the issues that are portrayed as so one sided here.

you will immediately smell the b.s.

emanating from the skeptic's book of bible stories!

Rod P

Leolaia,

Just to be clear here:

* Never compare scripture with scripture to find the meaning of difficult texts
This is exactly what Bible critics do.

I think what you mean is that Bible critics DO compare scripture with scripture to find the meaning of difficult texts. The way it's worded makes it sound like "Bible critics never compare scripture with scripture............" If that is what you mean, then I agree with you.

And again:

* Never use different bible versions, never check out the Greek or Hebrew.
This is exactly what Bible critics do.

I think you are saying "Bible critics DO use different bible versions, and DO check out the Greek or Hebrew. If that is what you mean, then I agree with you.

Rod P.

44

CAR INSURANCE IS THE BIGGEST RIP OFF IN THE WORLD!!!

by Mary in

jw
friends

i just really need to vent here.........i'm just so f**king tired of never having any extra money!!

all's i do is work to pay god damn bills......i just checked the balance on my chequing acct.

and i've got just under $900.00 to last me three weeks.

Rod P

Mary,

Allow me to suggest the unthinkable here. You're paying $328 a month for car payments, $175 a month for car insurance = $503 per month. Then you spend about $100+ a month on gas, and these days gas prices are going nowhere but up. So now, at $600+ a month, you're looking at over $7,200 a year. In 10 years that adds up to $72,000+.

I don't know what your annual income situation is, but you are probably paying around 25% in personal income taxes as an Ontario taxpayer. The money you are paying for transportation is being paid with "after tax" dollars, which means the you have to earn at least $9,600 a year to pay for your $7,200 in transportation costs. In 10 years that's $96,000 in earnings to pay for the $72,000. No wonder you can't win! It's because you are playing the game of "Lose". The system is calculated and legislated that way. Time to rebel, and quit being victimized!

The system is not going to change because there are too many vested interests at stake.

So you and I have some choices to make. Remain a victim of the system, or else do something about it to change your lot in life. It's all about choices

WHAT IF YOU:

1) Sold your car and used the sale proceeds to pay off your car loan. You most likely would even have some money left over.

2) At that point, you no longer would have insurance payments or gas expenses.

3) Now, what to do with that extra $7,200 a year.

4) Suppose you set yourself a goal, say for a period of 10 years out of your life. During this time, you going to deliberately make some sacrifices for the good of the longer term goal. That goal is to earn and save a little "nest egg". (You want to be able to control your own financial destiny, instead of always coming from behind, and the only light you see at the end of the tunnel seems to be a freight train.)

5) Ask yourself, "What alternatives are there with regards to my transportaition needs?" Can I take the bus (or subway if you are in the Metro-Toronto area)? If I am close to work, is it practical enough to walk? If so, think about the health benefits? If not,what else can I do? What about using a bicycle? Out here in the Vancouver Lower Mainland, there are/have been a number of women who go to and from work on Razor Scooters. Some of them actually had little motors installed on the back, so they could putt-putt down the sidewalk, coasting along with little or no effort. None of this is subject to car insurance. In terms of emergencies along the way, take a cab. Yes, it costs money, so you can't do that all the time. But you do this in only the most serious situations. Monthly bus passes would likely cost you in the neighborhood of $100 a month or so. Finally, in terms of lifestyle, when you really want to get away, you can always do a Car Rental for a weekend here and there. You can do this for under $200 on a weekend. The thing about your own car is that car insurance ticks along 24 hours a day, seven days a week, whether you're using the car or not. The car payments aren't going to quit any time soon. In fact, by the time you pay off the car, you are already thinking about trading in your car for a better, newer model, and back you go on the financial treadmill.

So now, if you can rearrange your affairs, keeping in mind your long-term gains for short-term sacrifices, can you not see that you could get your transportation budget down to say $200 a month for bus, taxis and occasional car rentals? This then would free up a good $400 a month, which is about $5,000 a year. Wow! Now if you invested that $5,000 a year, collecting interest on that money, compounded monthly, at the end of 10 years you could have saved $50,000, and probably have earned another $50,000 return on your investment = $100,000. There would be some taxes payable on the $50,000 Interest Income, say at 25% or $12,500, but that still leaves $37,500 after tax dollars, together with your $50,000 invested capital = $87,500 tax paid dollars.

Now who's the victim? Not you anymore! You are ahead of the game, instead of behind. Now you are in a better position to set yourself up with a car, which you can afford to buy outright for cash. By the way, cash buyers can save thousands in discounts on purchases. Cash is KING. Afterwards, you would have no car loan payments to worry about, which again, puts you ahead of the game. And ten years from now, alternative fuel cars will be a big factor in the marketplace- electric cars, hydrogen fuel, and some other alternatives on the horizon, etc.

So there you go, Mary. Think about it!

Incidentally, I do not own a car, by design. I take the bus and use sky train (equivalent to subway) and it works just fine. Sure, I miss a car sometimes, but I know I can make do without it. I just think about all the money I have saved, and I realize it is all worth it.

Good luck! Nahh! Luck has nothing to do with it. Planning and decisions have everything to do with it.

Rod P.

23

WE NEED PANKRATION here on JWD!

by Terry in

jw
friends

pankration!

Rod P

Terry,

Well, the first problem I see here is the fact that all good and obedient JW's are not supposed to be here, egos notwithstanding. They would be disobeying the instructions of the GB/FDS by doing so. And anyone with a reasonable amount of knowledge of the JW religion with the requisite skills of good communication and debating methods and techniques would most likely be in a position of leadership in the JW ranks. This makes them all the more likely to be obedient tp the instructions to not use the internet for research and discussion about their JW faith on Apostate Websites.

What say you to that?

Rod P.

66

Why 1914 is utterly true (and so is 607 B.C.E.)

by Terry in

jw
friends

1914 is a very significant date for true believers.

faithful and eager students of the scriptures figured out (and "proved") jesus would return to kill the wicked and reward the meek in 1874. the signs were obvious.

but, it didn't happen.

Rod P

Terry,

I just noticed your other new thread on Pankration. I get it now. Good idea, but I need to think about that one for a bit.

Time to move the discussion over to that thread.

Rod P.

66

Why 1914 is utterly true (and so is 607 B.C.E.)

by Terry in

jw
friends

1914 is a very significant date for true believers.

faithful and eager students of the scriptures figured out (and "proved") jesus would return to kill the wicked and reward the meek in 1874. the signs were obvious.

but, it didn't happen.

Rod P

Terry,

Can you be more specific as to in what form you would see this taking place?

Are you thinking of a real live public debate? Apostates on one side with the boys from Bethel on the other, for instance? Would you see it in a television venue?

Back in the 1960's (my JW days) a certain page was being circulated. It contained a list of questions posed by the JW's as a prelude to the debate, which challenged the representatives of Christendom to a debate based upon those questions. There were about 30 questions, many of which were about the Soul, the Trinity and Hellfire Doctrines, etc.

At the end of the list of questions was the following:

"No answer. No debate."

If you read these questions (with a JW mind), you would have this feeling of superiority, because the questions were worded such that the Other Side would have no logical way out of the dilemma he would find himself in once he entered the debate. It's like if you answered question 3 a certain way, it would ensnare you into being forced to answer question 5 a certain way in order to be logically consistent with your answer to question 3. But if you answered question 5 that way to satisfy question 3, it would, in turn, trip you up when you went to answer question 9. And so on. (It reminded me of the Pharisees, who loved to pose trick questions such that you could not give a right answer no matter which way you answered.

Anyway, I am still trying to grasp what exactly it is that you would propose.

Rod P.